Ive been referred to a stranger by a friend for logo design. It's a first potentially paid 'logo' job for me. I have absolutely no idea what is appropriate as far as billing/pay.
Its more of a bid situation where Im going to research her needs and wants and generate several mock-ups.
In all honesty, the client may very well not be interested in any of my ideas, and may want to shift the job to another designer.
ideas? Do I do a first round at no-pay just to see if she's interested in my directions?
Its more of a bid situation where Im going to research her needs and wants and generate several mock-ups.
In all honesty, the client may very well not be interested in any of my ideas, and may want to shift the job to another designer.
ideas? Do I do a first round at no-pay just to see if she's interested in my directions?
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New York
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Re: Logo design pay?
Tue, February 6, 2007 - 12:39 PMI don't know what most people do, but I won't do anything without a down payment anymore unless the contract is a sure thing.
If the client is out shopping, the best thing is to show them examples of work you've already done. If you don't have logos in your portfolio, hopefully you have a wide range of examples of other kinds of work.
The risk is yours to take, however. I'm not in a position to risk spending those kind of hours on a client and not get paid, so I wouldn't do it. Some people might. Maybe it's worth the risk to you if you really want the experience, and at least you can use the mock-ups in your portfolio. You can also bid accordingly, and maybe get the job based on submitting the lowest bid.
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Re: Logo design pay?
Tue, February 6, 2007 - 3:04 PMVibrata's got it right. Don't do anything without a down payment. If they don't want to do that then they're not someone you want to work with. One of the main reasons for this is, if they don't pay anything upfront then they are not invested in the process. Thus they don't feel any impetus towards a quick finish and thus give you endless revisions (they may anyway, though this can be headed off by letting them know they get to sets of revisions after that they'll be charged extra per hour of changes). This can also be an insurance policy, you let them know that the deposit is non refundable, as it covers your costs for producing the item in time, in items purchased etc. If they decide to backout then your not left high and dry and this acts as an incentive for them to keep working with you.
As far as how much, that's a tougher question. It comes down to how much is your time worth. If you are single, not it a relationship and spend most of your non work time surfing the web, then perhaps you can afford to work for less then someone whos every second is accounted for with some project or family obligation or a girlfriend who needs your time etc.
I'm really a busy guy. I would probably charge for a black and white text treatment 50$ based on one/two hours work. If its color or you think its going to take longer or has other design elements like you having to create an illustration then the price goes up to 150 to 300. In any case you get half up front and half on delivery. -
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Re: Logo design pay?
Tue, February 6, 2007 - 7:59 PMthank you, both.
And wow.. I would have thought it likely to charge more for Logos. Especially in todays visual market place. Branding is big money. Branding is logic, intellegence and ingenuity. Branding is for the brilliant.
If you have more experience than me: cant you charge more? -
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Re: Logo design pay?
Tue, February 6, 2007 - 9:24 PMYou have to factor in the size of your clients business and how much mileage they're going to get out of your design. Certainly if we were talking about a corporate logo, some company that takes in more than 7 figures a year, sure, you can probably charge $10, 000 or more. Just take a look in the Graphic Artist's Guild Handbook (you do have a copy, don't you?). But what if it's a mom & pop coffee shop? They'll probably use the logo for some business cards, menus and signage. You can't charge much for that.
More experience doesn't mean you can automatically charge more.... but you might make more by being fast and good.
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Re: Logo design pay?
Wed, February 7, 2007 - 12:16 PMYeah.
I was figuring this was a smaller scale job because it was a friend of a friend thing. Usually large corporations are going through their ad agency or something along those lines. But if you think you can get more for the job then go for it. It really is a case by case basis type of thing.
I think my point with that last post was more about the making sure you get something up front.
A signed agreement can help a lot too, as it cements expectations on both sides upfront. It doesn't have to be some big ol' legal document. Just something that states the pertinent facts (i.e. the names of both parties, a detailed description of the project, the agreed upon amount, the terms of payment a general schedule of events and signatures) making sure both parties have copies. Now I don't know how well it would stand up in court but under most circumstances it should serve its purpose. -
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Re: Logo design pay?
Wed, February 7, 2007 - 6:01 PM>>A signed agreement can help a lot too, as it cements expectations on both sides upfront. It doesn't have to be some big ol' legal document. Just something that states the pertinent facts (i.e. the names of both parties, a detailed description of the project, the agreed upon amount, the terms of payment a general schedule of events and signatures) making sure both parties have copies. Now I don't know how well it would stand up in court but under most circumstances it should serve its purpose.<<<
thank you, this is good. very helpful.
On the money scale, I think the numbers you mentioned above are actually perfect for me in this job. That's what feel right. I was more looking at my future self, once I get a few of these under my belt I plan to either be much faster with them, or charge significantly more.
I mean think about the guy who came up with the cross for christianity, Im betting he didnt charge nearly what he could have gotten for such brilliant work.. and was he ever aware of the startling value he generated for the organization? -
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Re: Logo design pay?
Wed, February 7, 2007 - 6:48 PMwell the better the portfolio you have to show the more money you can potentially make. Also there's nothing stopping you from polishing your image (i.e. if you look like someone who handles large corporate branding accounts there's nothing stopping you from getting them with the right portfolio and website) -
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Re: Logo design pay?
Wed, February 7, 2007 - 7:24 PMleads me to my next question: polishing up old work for a portfolio.. dumb idea, unethical?
So I have a bunch of work that I would definately not do now.. the ideas are too complicated, theyre not clear .. etc.. and I know exactly what I want to do to make them.. smarter.. better...
But they wouldnt be the work that was actually published, printed.. any negatives to that? -
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Re: Logo design pay?
Thu, February 8, 2007 - 11:42 AMI don't think there are any issues here.
Usually when I look back at stuff it seems a bit dated. For those ones I don't think look dated there's no reason to not put them in. You hade them so their are no ethics problem. As long as the perspective likes the work who cares if it was published or not.
I wouldn't show any types of projects you aren't interested on working on. Because as it is with most things, the clients bound to pick the project you least want to work on.
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