Hey all,
I have a situation... My wife paid another performing artist to create a website for her, which in their arrangements included hosting.
For my understanding this is a work for hire, since he would not have made this website otherwise, without her payment.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_hire
Now that the registry of her URL is coming up, he does not want to send us the files for the site so we can reload it onto the hosting plan that I have for my websites. He claims it is not their policy to release files. We like the base design, while the mystery meat navigation is slow and buggy, the base of the design is nice. We offered to keep his design credits unless a complete overhaul occurs, since we like the visual layout. For my knowledge, my wife paid for:
1. graphic design of the site
2. hosting from web release until this summer, seperately from basic design cost
3. registry of her URL, which was put in her name under his business.
What to do?
Do we keep the base design and re-script the back-end if he chooses to not send the files of the complete site?
What exactly are you buying when you contract for a site to be built, if not the files that comprise the site?
Recommendations?
Many thanks,
MT
I have a situation... My wife paid another performing artist to create a website for her, which in their arrangements included hosting.
For my understanding this is a work for hire, since he would not have made this website otherwise, without her payment.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_hire
Now that the registry of her URL is coming up, he does not want to send us the files for the site so we can reload it onto the hosting plan that I have for my websites. He claims it is not their policy to release files. We like the base design, while the mystery meat navigation is slow and buggy, the base of the design is nice. We offered to keep his design credits unless a complete overhaul occurs, since we like the visual layout. For my knowledge, my wife paid for:
1. graphic design of the site
2. hosting from web release until this summer, seperately from basic design cost
3. registry of her URL, which was put in her name under his business.
What to do?
Do we keep the base design and re-script the back-end if he chooses to not send the files of the complete site?
What exactly are you buying when you contract for a site to be built, if not the files that comprise the site?
Recommendations?
Many thanks,
MT
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SF Bay Area
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Tue, April 22, 2008 - 11:09 AMI will ask around here at work and find out for you. -
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Tue, April 22, 2008 - 12:49 PMWork for hire is actually a specific agreement that you enter into and very few artists in their right mind agree to that without very compelling reasons. -
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Tue, April 22, 2008 - 1:04 PMThen when you pay a person to make a website,
what exactly are you buying?
What rights come with contracting with a designer to provide a service
(designing a website)
and what rights do they keep? -
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Tue, April 22, 2008 - 1:51 PMDid he put in writing that he would own the art? If not he doesn't own the design, but he does own the coding. They are separate things. You can't have another web guy copy and paste his code and use it.
He has to give you the art files unless he put in writing up front that he got to keep them. Sounds like he expected to keep the hosting.
You do not have to use his hosting. Like in the print industry (my jargon) You can buy photography from a photographer and put it on packaging. You do not have to use the photographer for printing the packaging.
THIS GOES TO EVERYONE WEB & PRINT ALIKE, you must get a contract before starting a project. The area is still foggy and you have lots of freelancers without corporate backup.
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Tue, April 22, 2008 - 2:08 PMIf I understand you correctly, then...
The graphic design that appears on the screen is what was purchased,
not the file that produces it on the web?
I ask because it seems odd that one could take the picture (artistic image) yet not be able to reload it to another server.
Does this mean that if things go south and we like the image but cannot reach an agreement over the content files, we can have another webmaster code the backend of the site fresh and maintain the same design?
We would, of course, keep design credit linked to him on the site, but the webmaster would change
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Tue, April 22, 2008 - 2:09 PMThen there's this that totally contradicts what my boss says. I'll wait and ask our web guy when he gets in.
www.wisecounselpress.com/artic...n.html -
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Tue, April 22, 2008 - 2:13 PMIt is only considered work for hire if there was a written contract...
www.copylaw.com/forms/Workhire.html -
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Tue, April 22, 2008 - 3:11 PMBecky, thank you for taking the time to ask around...
You rock!
I believe it was negotiated over email,
not via a proper written contract, so I doubt a formal agreement of work for hire status may not apply.
If that is the case, what rights may be implicit to the type of service? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Tue, April 22, 2008 - 3:56 PMTypically the way that freelance web design contracts work (at least the ones I've been dealing with for the last 10 years) are that you given unlimited usage rights to the work as long as the invoice is paid unless it has been specified otherwise. For example, I buy one-time usage rights from photographers (at a cheaper rate) with the understanding that they can and will sell those images to other people for their use. I am allowed to redisplay those images in the original context of the design, but cannot reuse them in another design without buying further rights.
This guy is being a dick and really has no grounds to challenge you. Do you have the FTP site password? download the files and call it good. -
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Tue, April 22, 2008 - 4:55 PMJust be careful doing that, if he knows how to get back into your webpage, he can sabotage it! We got a new client, we took over their account, took their web and the old web guy hacked in and made it so that every customer that got on their page got a virus!!! And like k8 says, he sounds like he's being a dick.
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Wed, April 23, 2008 - 1:03 PMwithout very compelling reasons. ... Money -
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 12:58 PMAll I can say is
web-design.tribe.net/thread/...97cc5497
Not all the facts have been clearly laid out and as designers you should be careful about giving advice pertaining to copyright and intellectual property without knowing all the details. What has been presented is a one sided argument which never involved the one who started it. Instead of addressing me and discussing what was involved he decided to start some forums and e-mail me the links.
Unfortunately MT took on this crusade , while his wife and I were dealing with this. As the business is between his wife and I and the agreement was made with her not him.
So call it being a dick or not I don't need someone sending me links to wikepedia work for hire definitions , and telling me what my rights are and how I am to run my business.
I am not sure how things run in the United States but here in Canada 95 percent of companies manage their clients domains and hosting. There are several reasons for this and yes Silent Knight is on the nose Money is number 1. Not just money for the designers but also in saving for the client. Our company has group rates due to the amount of volume we do with the hosting company. This in turn is passed on to our clients.
I could go on for hours about copyright and intellectual property and that is a forum in itself.
I hope that every artist considers there rights.
Presenting the other side of the coin,
Byron -
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 11:38 PMThere was never an argument in these threads until you posted,
until then it was a a query to a community well versed in the topic at hand.
So far your business practice in this situation speaks for itself...
If you choose to conduct your business in this manner,
holding a client's files hostage unless your hosting service is renewed,
then let it be known publicly.
If your business can't stand the scrutiny of other professionals in your industry,
then it may be worth considering the opinion of those working in your field. -
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 10:10 AMNone of these people practice in Canada MT and so they don't fall into "my community" Canda and US have very different ways of doing business.
Lets not get into what my business can handle and can't handle MT. If you had kept quiet this matter would have all ready been dealt with but you need to feel right about this and so the argument continues. If you learned that dealing with the person in question directly instead of linking them to a one side poorly presented argument just pisses them off.
MT again I ask you nicely drop this and let Monica and I handle this. My business is with her not you and we have been back and forth. I don't need nor care for your opinion as it has not bearings on the situation. Your constant badgering has no positive outcomes I can assure you.
If you would open your ears MT you would find out what other options are available. Your approach was again rude and ignorant , I am certain that this would have been dealt with if you just let Monica and I take care of it.
Respectfully,
Byron
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Re: Who owns my wife's site?
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 1:28 PMdon't know where you are located in canada but if you are in ontario contact the RGD Ontario and ask them.
kay.
